QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

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Ifti
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QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by Ifti » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:45 am

Im drawn to this switch considering its almost silent running and efficient power consumption.
Looking to pick up an iMac Pro as my main workstation soon, which has a 10GBe port also.

As the QNAP switch is unmanaged Im assuming there is no way to set up link aggregation?

Assuming the above is a no, do I need to do anything on my NAS (TVS-871T) when connecting to this switch? I'm assuming there is no actual setup, just plug-and-play with a Cat6a cable?

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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by P3R » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:52 am

Ifti wrote:As the QNAP switch is unmanaged Im assuming there is no way to set up link aggregation?
The documentation lists the different link aggregation (confusingly called "Port Trunking" by Qnap) modes in a table on this page. Some require different kinds of link aggregation configuration on the switch but other modes work with unmanaged/non-configured switches (called "General switches" in the table).

That said, with 10 GbE the network normally isn't a bottleneck any more so there's probably no reason to use link aggregation, especially not the less effective LAG modes that work with unmanaged switches. Link aggregation may be causing networking issues sometimes so it should only be enabled if really needed.

Please note that as you didn't tell us what Qnap model and QTS firmware you use, the specific documentation link I gave you above may not be correct for your Qnap but similar tables can be found in the Network configuration section of all versions of Qnap NAS documentation.
I'm assuming there is no actual setup, just plug-and-play with a Cat6a cable
I've never used a Qnap switch but yes, that's the way it is in general with unmanaged switches.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by storageman » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:28 pm

Basic port trunking does not need a 802.1 managed switch.
If you want to use two ports for resilience and wider bandwidth for multiple connections go ahead!

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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by Ifti » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:29 pm

storageman wrote:Basic port trunking does not need a 802.1 managed switch.
If you want to use two ports for resilience and wider bandwidth for multiple connections go ahead!


That was exactly my planned usage.
Do I need to do anything on the QNAP NAS (TVS-871T) or simply plug in both 10GBe ports to the switch and off I go?
Thanks

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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:45 pm

afaik it's just plug and play. though maybe if you need port trunking, you need to set it in the QNAP NAS configuration perhaps? :'
https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/qsw-1208-8c

the FAQ page says this "Set Port Trunking on your QNAP NAS to increase the bandwidth via 802.3ad protocol"
https://www.qnap.com/en-us/how-to/tutor ... d-protocol


The default setting is “layer 2 (MAC)“. This is compatible with every switch but only offers load balancing by MAC address. We recommend using “Layer 2+3 (MAC+IP)” for greater performance but you will need to check that your switch supports it.


fast forward to 2:13 there are 3 options. the QTS explains well which option is possible depending on your hardware setup.

From Youtube.com



for managed switches, i recently saw a video explaining setting up vlans

From Youtube.com


just recently i had to transfer some work files from the QNAP TS-877 to a laptop on wireless. the speeds is ridiculously slow (not qnap fault), would have taken 2-3 hours. I just pop in an ethernet cable to switch to the laptop, BOOM max speed :} took roughly 5 minutes under (i use 1gbit port gear so :ashamed: )

with 10gbe setup, that would just be even more better :)

switches amazing stuff 8)
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) single disks.
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228
[^] QNAP TS-128
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

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[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by Ifti » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:49 pm

I’m assuming I would use port trunking if I was using a managed switch as I would need to configure ports on the switch end as well as the NAS.
As I’ll be using an unmanaged switch I’m not sure if I need to do anything.....?

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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by storageman » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:12 pm

Ifti wrote:I’m assuming I would use port trunking if I was using a managed switch as I would need to configure ports on the switch end as well as the NAS.
As I’ll be using an unmanaged switch I’m not sure if I need to do anything.....?


It tells you in the 4.3 + GUI just use the General switch option and Balance-alb

You certainly made a meal of a simple issue you could have tried yourself.

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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by P3R » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:54 pm

Ifti wrote:I’m assuming I would use port trunking if I was using a managed switch as I would need to configure ports on the switch end as well as the NAS.
You need to configure port trunking (link aggregation) in the NAS if you want to use it. The configuration is explained in the documentation that I linked to earlier and I also told you what key words to look for to know what different configurations you had to choose from with an unmanaged switch.

The reason I didn't recommend port trunking was because your post didn't give the impression of somebody really having those requirements and if you don't, it will only complicate your network configuration and increase your power bill. But I may of course have misunderstood your situation so go ahead and try port trunking if you:
  • Often have multiple concurrent clients with very, very high performance demands (aggregating to more than what a single 10 GbE can give you)
  • Have replaced all your WD Reds with SSDs (otherwise those mechanical disks will be a bottleneck to around what a single 10 GbE will give you)
  • Can't afford the downtime required to manually switch the network cable to a different port if one port should fail (single network port failures are pretty uncommon)
  • Don't mind paying for the 5 W (about 44 kW per year) or so increased power consumption of a redundant network connection
Instead of immediately going for the most advanced configuration your equipment can manage, an alternative approach would be to start out with a single port and see if your work force is frequently limited by the 1100 MBytes/sec performance available over a single 10 GbE interface. If it really is, then you could try port trunking.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by Bob Zelin » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:15 am

Hi -
late to the conversation.
This is all kind of silly.
1) the QSW-1208-8C does not offer any management, so no link aggregation.
2) your iMac Pro has a 10G port - you will get close to 1000 MB/sec to the TVS-871T, with or without a switch.
3) even if you had a Netgear XS708T, where you could create a LACP 802.3ad link agg, and do the same on your TVS-871T, your 8 SATA drives in your TVS-871T can't go faster than about 1100 MB/sec.
So let's say you DID do the LACP on the switch and the TVS-871T, and hooked this up to your iMac Pro. You are STILL not going to do 1800 - 2000 MB/sec. Your QNAP can't do it.

for the record, 10 GbE is 1250 MB/sec. And you never get those speeds - that's all theoretical. So you would achieve nothing if you successfully did the LACP on a switch and the TVS-871T, as far as your
iMac Pro is concerned.

The only point of doing this is if you have multiple users, all with 10G connections to your QNAP (and a larger faster one like a TVS-EC1680U or a TS-1685).

If you have very few users, and only the one iMac Pro, the QSW-1208-8C will be just fine, with a simple single connection to the QNAP 10G port. You will still be able to do 4K editing without issue.

Bob Zelin
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Ifti
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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by Ifti » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:29 am

Thanks for all your replied guys.
Now have the switch and connected my NAS to it via a single 10GBe switch.

Now waiting for a couple of Sonnett Solo Thunderbolt 3 to 10GBe adapters to connect client laptops for when they need the higher speeds ;)
Looking forward to seeing the speeds I can manage!

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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:41 am

you can run iperf test to test out your new speeds :} report back your findings.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) single disks.
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228
[^] QNAP TS-128
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by Bob Zelin » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:34 pm

Hi Moogle -
Mr. Ifti is running on a Mac OS platform. I am guessing he is a video person. He wants to run either AJA System Test, or Blackmagic Disk Speed Test - both available from the Apple App store for free.
If you have SMB signing disables (and SMB3 selected in the QNAP), you should get close to 800 - 900 MB/sec with your TVS-871T and the Sonnet Solo 10G on your thunderbolt 3 port.
You can download these apps right now (they are free) and if you test with your 1G port on your Mac (until your Solo 10G shows up), you will get 100 MB/sec.

Bob Zelin
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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by disenter » Thu May 21, 2020 3:38 pm

Quick question.

Is port trunking only available with this switch via a Qnap nas?

My Asus router supports port trunking which I currently use with my TVS-872XT so it can upload and download as much as it likes without one interfering with the other. Works well.

Obviously with a 10gbe link this is kind of redundant, but I wouldn't mind if I could run aggregation from the switch to the router to keep up and down channels to the net seperate.

Does qnap 1208 support this?

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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by P3R » Thu May 21, 2020 4:57 pm

disenter wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:38 pm
My Asus router supports port trunking...
It depend on which link aggregation (called port trunking by Qnap) mode it support. Check in the Asus settings. I would be surprised if it's any of kink aggregation (aka LAG) modes that work with unmanaged (aka "dumb") switches. What mode do you use at the Qnap?
...I wouldn't mind if I could run aggregation from the switch to the router to keep up and down channels to the net seperate.
This is a misunderstanding. Ethernet using switches is full duplex, meaning that it contain are separate up and down channels and can send and receive concurrently at the advertised speed. The cabling is known as Twisted Pair (TP) and the word "Pair" refers to the two separate channels within the same cable,
Does qnap 1208 support this?
QSW-1208-8C is an unmanaged switch and as such doesn't support LAG but if the other side can do a LAG mode that work with unmanaged switches, then it should work.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

Bob Zelin
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Re: QNAP QSW-1208-8C Switch Question

Post by Bob Zelin » Sat May 23, 2020 4:46 am

Hi Disenter -
there are different types of port trunking. IF your goal is to get GREATER SPEED for more computers to be able to use your QNAP, the QSW-1208-8C AND your ASUS router is not what you want.
The only trunking that will double your bandwidth is called LACP (link aggregation control protocol). This is also referred to as IEEE 802.3ad. You need TWO 10G ports on the QNAP (the TVS-872XT only has one) and you need TWO ports on the switch (like a Netgear XS708T). You setup LACP on both the QNAP (like using a QNAP LAN-10G2T-X550 dual port 10G card) and LACP on the switch, and now you get 20 Gb/sec.
Your clients will only still get 10G speeds (about 1000 MB/sec), but you can have more of them. Unless you have lots of clients, this is a complete waste of time.
SO - what is the other type of port trunking (a normal LAG) for - ? REDUNDANCY - so if one of the cables fail, the other one keeps things going.

LACP does not work client to switch. Only server to switch. You can't put dual 10G ports on a client computer, setup an LACP and get 20 Gb/sec (20 MB/sec). You want those speeds - you get 40G Ethernet and a 40G switch. And an 8 bay for this application is a complete waste of time.

Bob Zelin
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http://www.bobzelin.com

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