TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Interested in our products? Post your questions here. Let us answer before you buy.
HiTach
Starting out
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:03 am

TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by HiTach » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:10 am

I have an 872XT with 8x10TB drives for use as fast/large capacity direct storage for my Windows desktop, and network storage for other devices. Sounds Great.

The Thunderbolt 3 interface (TB3) performance has been slow, inconsistent and unreliable - writing speeds over the "40Gb/s" TB3 connection are low (sometimes half) compared to 10Gbe Ethernet which is fast, smooth, with symmetric, reliable read/write speeds between the same devices, showing it not to be a drive related problem, and despite QNAP collecting lots of data from me over many weeks, but no answer on my ticket.
I have tried Asus Thunderbolt EX3 and Gigabyte Alpine Ridge TB3 cards on the desktop, and 40gb/s TB3 cables of 2m and 0.5m from Monoprice, CableMatters, Godspin (certified) and Anker, all perform in a similar range.

The 872XT Thunderbolt card is installed by the factory in the topmost slot 1, which has a PCIex16 connector.

So I got a QNAP supported Mellanox MCX314a PCIe network card for 40Gbe network performance in the 872XT, and another Mellanox 40Gbe card for the desktop and a QSFP+ 3m cable. It's great. Smooth, very fast, especially combined with the 2x1TB Samsung 970 EVO plus cache.

But, the Mellanox is a PCIex8 lane card, and the 872XT slot 2 only has a PCIex4 connector.
Simple, I thought just switch them.

But no, even though the QNAP TB3 card shows two ports available in the Network app when installed in slot2, no actual TB connections to it are ever recognized.
Support has confirmed a second time that the QNAP TB3 PCIex4 card will not work in the PCIex4 slot 2.

That means no PCIex8 or x16 support if you want to keep the TB3 card in use, expansion cards can only go in the PCIex4 slot2.

I did run the Mellanox PCIex8 in the PCIex4 slot 2 (it just extends beyond the PCIex4 electrical contacts and negotiates like a PCIex4 device, but I see a decrease in the read speed as the bandwidth cap becomes evident.

I'm posting this in the Presales section because I had no idea of this when I before I purchased the NAS and wasted time troubleshooting TB3 in general and in slot2.
Workstation DAS/NAS: TVS-872X(T) *Thunderbolt card removed due to Windows10 1909 bug
8x10TB WD Gold RAID6 54TB static volume
2x1TB Samsung 970 EVO plus R/W RAID1 cache w/EK WB M.2 heatsinks + 2x NB 12-P fans
1x40Gbe Mellanox DAS network connection, 1x10Gbe QXG-10G1T for local 10gbe virtual switch
Backup NAS: TVS-872XT
8x10TB WD Gold RAID6 54TB Thick volume w/snapshots
1x40Gbe Qnap Thunderbolt 3 card, 1x10Gbe QXG-10G1T for local 10gbe virtual switch
LAN switch 10Gbe(2)/1Gbe(8) NETGEAR Nighthawk SX10 (GS810EMX)

User avatar
zeker
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:44 am
Location: Alaska

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by zeker » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:20 pm

FWIW: Support has told me that the TB3 connection is unreliable and that they are working on FW that will remedy. The 05102019 (latest) version is worse and I was advised to downgrade to the one prior.
. . . . . .. . . . . Pete

TVS-872XT with 4 x 8TB in RAID 5, 2 x M.2 SSD 500GB as Vol 2 for media apps.

HiTach
Starting out
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:03 am

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by HiTach » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:32 am

Thanks for that, zeker, no such admission to me from support after many back-and-forth messages.
Curiously the TB3 connection shows as 20.0Gbps in Control Panel->Network Connections->Thunderbolt-> (rt click)-> Windows Network Status, even though I use different TB3 PCIe cards in my desktop and certified 40Gbps cables.
If you use Windows what does yours show?

I have given up TB3 for the moment and am enjoying 40Gbe networking without any headaches.

I hope the firmware revision supports TB3 in the PCIe x4 slot 2.
Workstation DAS/NAS: TVS-872X(T) *Thunderbolt card removed due to Windows10 1909 bug
8x10TB WD Gold RAID6 54TB static volume
2x1TB Samsung 970 EVO plus R/W RAID1 cache w/EK WB M.2 heatsinks + 2x NB 12-P fans
1x40Gbe Mellanox DAS network connection, 1x10Gbe QXG-10G1T for local 10gbe virtual switch
Backup NAS: TVS-872XT
8x10TB WD Gold RAID6 54TB Thick volume w/snapshots
1x40Gbe Qnap Thunderbolt 3 card, 1x10Gbe QXG-10G1T for local 10gbe virtual switch
LAN switch 10Gbe(2)/1Gbe(8) NETGEAR Nighthawk SX10 (GS810EMX)

User avatar
zeker
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:44 am
Location: Alaska

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by zeker » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:31 am

Yeah, they didn't offer much until I asked direct questions.

Currently, I can't get a TB connection at all. Qfinder tries to set up a connection and it just keeps going until the network gets locked up somehow. Fixes as soon as I unplug TB. Sometimes it does seem to make the connection, but I am still only getting 100MB/s, the same as my 1GbE connection alone. It has never been consistent or stable, but at least I could make the connection.

I should probably check with support as it seems this is even worse than expected with the FW version before the current one. I've figured I'd just wait until the next FW and see if it's remedied.

BTW, I think 20GbE is the best we get even with TB3. I'm using a TB2 cable though, as I need at least 3M length.
. . . . . .. . . . . Pete

TVS-872XT with 4 x 8TB in RAID 5, 2 x M.2 SSD 500GB as Vol 2 for media apps.

bapw@comcast.net
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:15 am

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by bapw@comcast.net » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:53 am

Do you know if the thunderbolt issue is only with the 72 line or with all thunderbolt 3 machines such as the 1282t3. I am thinking about at some point getting a second nas and aince the hades canyon has T3 considering one with T3. Thanks.

User avatar
zeker
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:44 am
Location: Alaska

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by zeker » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:45 pm

bapw@comcast.net wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:53 am
Do you know if the thunderbolt issue is only with the 72 line or with all thunderbolt 3 machines such as the 1282t3. I am thinking about at some point getting a second nas and aince the hades canyon has T3 considering one with T3. Thanks.
Don't know. And I'm hoping they will solve the 872XT issues with a firmware update before too long.
. . . . . .. . . . . Pete

TVS-872XT with 4 x 8TB in RAID 5, 2 x M.2 SSD 500GB as Vol 2 for media apps.

bapw@comcast.net
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:15 am

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by bapw@comcast.net » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:00 am

Thank you for responding. I hope they fix the 872 issues too.

QNAPDanielFL
Easy as a breeze
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:09 am

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by QNAPDanielFL » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:20 am

There is a new Qfinder pro for mac. 7.1.1. Qfinder pro can set up a thunderbolt connection. Does using this fix your thunderbolt problems?

User avatar
zeker
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:44 am
Location: Alaska

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by zeker » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:25 am

QNAPDanielFL wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:20 am
There is a new Qfinder pro for mac. 7.1.1. Qfinder pro can set up a thunderbolt connection. Does using this fix your thunderbolt problems?
Hi Daniel,

Can you confirm that FW is in the works for TB issues? Or, if Qfinder can help, if there will be an update for windows? The connection that 6.6.6.0522 creates is problematic as I described above.

Thanks....
. . . . . .. . . . . Pete

TVS-872XT with 4 x 8TB in RAID 5, 2 x M.2 SSD 500GB as Vol 2 for media apps.

User avatar
zeker
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:44 am
Location: Alaska

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by zeker » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:14 pm

QFinder Pro for Windows update to 6.6.7 today. So far, doesn't not seem to make a difference in TB connection.
. . . . . .. . . . . Pete

TVS-872XT with 4 x 8TB in RAID 5, 2 x M.2 SSD 500GB as Vol 2 for media apps.

QNAPDanielFL
Easy as a breeze
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:09 am

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by QNAPDanielFL » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:37 am

I am going to have to ask about what firmware changes are in the works regarding thunderbolt. When I find out more I can reply.

User avatar
zeker
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:44 am
Location: Alaska

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by zeker » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:40 am

QNAPDanielFL wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:37 am
I am going to have to ask about what firmware changes are in the works regarding thunderbolt. When I find out more I can reply.
Much appreciated Daniel!
. . . . . .. . . . . Pete

TVS-872XT with 4 x 8TB in RAID 5, 2 x M.2 SSD 500GB as Vol 2 for media apps.

jimiaa
First post
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:45 am

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by jimiaa » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:00 pm

HiTach wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:10 am
I have an 872XT with 8x10TB drives for use as fast/large capacity direct storage for my Windows desktop, and network storage for other devices. Sounds Great.

The Thunderbolt 3 interface (TB3) performance has been slow, inconsistent and unreliable - writing speeds over the "40Gb/s" TB3 connection are low (sometimes half) compared to 10Gbe Ethernet which is fast, smooth, with symmetric, reliable read/write speeds between the same devices, showing it not to be a drive related problem, and despite QNAP collecting lots of data from me over many weeks, but no answer on my ticket.
I have tried Asus Thunderbolt EX3 and Gigabyte Alpine Ridge TB3 cards on the desktop, and 40gb/s TB3 cables of 2m and 0.5m from Monoprice, CableMatters, Godspin (certified) and Anker, all perform in a similar range.

The 872XT Thunderbolt card is installed by the factory in the topmost slot 1, which has a PCIex16 connector.

So I got a QNAP supported Mellanox MCX314a PCIe network card for 40Gbe network performance in the 872XT, and another Mellanox 40Gbe card for the desktop and a QSFP+ 3m cable. It's great. Smooth, very fast, especially combined with the 2x1TB Samsung 970 EVO plus cache.

But, the Mellanox is a PCIex8 lane card, and the 872XT slot 2 only has a PCIex4 connector.
Simple, I thought just switch them.

But no, even though the QNAP TB3 card shows two ports available in the Network app when installed in slot2, no actual TB connections to it are ever recognized.
Support has confirmed a second time that the QNAP TB3 PCIex4 card will not work in the PCIex4 slot 2.

That means no PCIex8 or x16 support if you want to keep the TB3 card in use, expansion cards can only go in the PCIex4 slot2.

I did run the Mellanox PCIex8 in the PCIex4 slot 2 (it just extends beyond the PCIex4 electrical contacts and negotiates like a PCIex4 device, but I see a decrease in the read speed as the bandwidth cap becomes evident.

I'm posting this in the Presales section because I had no idea of this when I before I purchased the NAS and wasted time troubleshooting TB3 in general and in slot2.
Saw this discussion and am having a similar problem. I just unboxed TVS-472xt installed a PCIe expansion card (QM2-2P-384 PCIe Gen3 x8) with NVMe M.2 (2x1TB 970 EVO) into slot 1 of 2 since It will not fit into slot 2. Works fast and great...

So I moved the TB3 card (PCIe Gen3 x4) into slot 2 and (like the others) NAS recognizes its 2 ports but cannot achieve a thunderbolt connection. updating firmware to QTS 4.4.0.0979 build 20190627 did not fix it. Definitely spent too much time trying to solve a tb3 connection problem, right out of the box .. QNap should have some notes on the NAS describing this tb3 PCIe x4 in slot 2 instance. This issue now makes any PCIe x8 or x16, a detraction card or just a modification, not a true expansion card if you want to keep tb3.

Going to try the (QM2-2P-344 PCIe Gen3 x4) with the same drives into Slot 2 and swap the tb3 back into Slot 1 to to see if I can get tb3 working. Im just concerned with x4 lanes vs x8 and not getting full potential out of NVMe SSDs ...

irev210
Starting out
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:52 am

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by irev210 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:14 am

Just want to say I've spent a fair amount of time on this issue as well. I purchased the QM2-2P-384 and ran into the same problem only to land here. I have the same issue. TB3 card will NOT work in PCIE 4x slot only 16x slot despite the TB3 card only being a 4x slot. A complete waste of space. I hope QNAP fixes.

rogerrats
First post
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 5:19 am

Re: TVS-872XT Thunderbolt 3 card issue

Post by rogerrats » Tue May 19, 2020 5:38 am

I have the same issue with TB3 card connectivity in my new TVS-672XT NAS that I recently purchased. The TB3 card does work in the PCIE 16x slot but NOT in slot 2 (PCIE 3x4 slot).QTS will see that a card is installed on the bus by displaying a public ip address and the use of providing a re-charge to my Apple iPad but there is also mention that the TB3 bridge is not active. I therefore removed the card from slot 2 and reinstalled it (to slot 2) thinking that a re-install might work but to no avail it did not work. So I removed it from the NAS since I had purchased a QNAP network expansion card that required the full 16x slot.

I called QNAP technical support today (May 18, 2020) just to see if someone there was aware of this issue and was possibly working on a QTS firmware update to resolve the problem, but the guy that I talked to said that no one there in his area or Tech Support (in the Hardware dept.) was even aware that there was a problem ! So, no telling if this will EVER be resolved guys.

Post Reply

Return to “Presales”