QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Interested in our products? Post your questions here. Let us answer before you buy.
Post Reply
User avatar
Moogle Stiltzkin
Ask me anything
Posts: 9400
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 am
Location: Around the world....
Contact:

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed May 20, 2020 8:01 am

P3R wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:36 am
Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:02 am
so i guess you won't be using quts hero i take it?
Why do you guess that?

I manage ZFS systems on an almost daily basis and I have the hardware to run it, so why wouldn't I want to use it? I certainly want to at least test it.
because of your messaging i thought you didn't want to use it because of the limitations 8) stone age as you put it, your own words.

P3R wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:36 am

Different from the marketing message though, I want users to also be aware of the limitations and disadvantages in advance so that they can make an informed decision. I also haven't noticed the stellar performance advantage marketing tell us about. I think that a lot of users with smaller NASes would be better off sticking to QTS. At least for a while until the early adopters have taken the hit and the real hardware requirements are common knowledge. I can't imagine that anybody with 4 GB RAM will be a happy user.
i'm sorta agreed on this... but even for normal user, just using the auto heal feature, and not using more advance features (dedupe), is still advantageous. but like you said, if they can't cope with the limitations, then they may be better off with the standard ext4 qts firmware instead :(

i'm not sure that these limitations are clearly indicated though on this page
Notes
-QuTS hero requires a NAS with at least 4GB memory.
-Inline Data Deduplication requires a NAS with at least 8GB memory (at least 32GB memory is recommended for optimal performance).
-QuTS hero is not supported by dual-controller NAS systems.
-As QTS and QuTS hero use different file systems, the NAS system must be re-initialized before switching between QTS and QuTS hero. Users must back up their data and system settings beforehand.
https://www.qnap.com/quts-hero/en/

Image


it's missing mention of whether it would allow creation a single static volume from the documentation :S I'm pretty certain this was mentioned somewhere at some point (probly in one of the youtube in the sliders, but i can't recall which one exactly). they should add that to the list of caveats on the quts hero page.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) single disks.
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228
[^] QNAP TS-128
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

P3R
Guru
Posts: 12395
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:39 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden (UTC+01:00)

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by P3R » Wed May 20, 2020 8:40 am

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:01 am
because of your messaging i thought you didn't want to use it because of the limitations 8) stone age as you put it, your own words.
I meant that static volumes belong to the stone age.

I haven't used them since the day I could use storage pools and I tried to make a joke questioning why anybody would still want to use static volumes any more when you have an option.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

User avatar
Moogle Stiltzkin
Ask me anything
Posts: 9400
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 am
Location: Around the world....
Contact:

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed May 20, 2020 8:53 am

P3R wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:40 am
I meant that static volumes belong to the stone age.
i agree with you on that. but my assumption was, because of that one caveat, you meant you weren't going to touch qts hero which is why i misunderstood what you meant by that. my mistake :ashamed:

atm i am using a single static volume ssd. but i'm not sure that is going to be possible with quts hero (doesn't sound like it). But something something like raid1 using 2 ssds would work? but that require me purchasing an extra ssd just to do that :S whereas i was perfectly having that single static volume ssd on qts.

so will see :) ....

anyone know when we can purchase qts hero :( ? i sent helpdesk a message, waiting for a reply.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) single disks.
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228
[^] QNAP TS-128
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

Jazz59
Starting out
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:55 pm

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by Jazz59 » Wed May 20, 2020 11:39 am

Hi Moogle,

The QuTS hero license program will be available from the second quarter of 2020. According to the Qnap site.

I look forward to it and I hope in passing that it will solve the RR problems that cause the Samsung 970 Evo with my TVS-472XT.

Jazz59 8)
Qnap TVS-472XT 32GB | NIC QXG-10G2SF-CX4 | 3 HDD Seagate 6TB | 2 SSD NVMe Samsung 970 Evo 1TB | Drive QDA-A2MAR | 2 SSD Samsung 860 Evo 500GB

User avatar
OneCD
Ask me anything
Posts: 8122
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:48 am
Location: "... there, behind that sofa!"

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by OneCD » Wed May 20, 2020 11:49 am

Jazz59 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:39 am
The QuTS hero license program will be available from the second quarter of 2020. According to the Qnap site.
And it won’t be the first-half of the second-quarter. ;)

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
Moogle Stiltzkin
Ask me anything
Posts: 9400
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 am
Location: Around the world....
Contact:

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed May 20, 2020 12:07 pm

thx jazz
January, February, and March (Q1)
April, May, and June (Q2)
July, August, and September (Q3)
October, November, and December (Q4)
So next month :'

QTS 4.4.2.1273 build 20200413

Enhancements

QTS
Users can now switch between QTS and QTS hero on the QTS hero NAS.
https://www.qnap.com/en/release-notes/q ... 3/20200413


where to buy once it's released
https://software.qnap.com
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) single disks.
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228
[^] QNAP TS-128
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

P3R
Guru
Posts: 12395
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:39 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden (UTC+01:00)

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by P3R » Wed May 20, 2020 3:15 pm

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:53 am
atm i am using a single static volume ssd. but i'm not sure that is going to be possible with quts hero (doesn't sound like it). But something something like raid1 using 2 ssds would work?
Now it sound like you're confusing static volume with single disk QTS. They're separate things. I thought your question was about having a static volumes.

You can have single HDD/SSD in both QTS and with ZFS. It's usually not recommended, but possible.

In QTS a static volume is an alternative to using storage pools, which is placed upon a RAID group or a single disk.

In QuTS you need a separate boot volume. I don't remember the exact requirements but I think that a RAID 1 of SSDs would be the best for that. It's probably optional but in addition to that you may want to use SSDs for caching. As that would include write caching, at least RAID 1 is strongly recommended or hopefully even a requirement.

I intend to have 2 pairs of SSDs for the above usage.
So next month...
And as we know that Qnap have never been late with any release, you'd better get ready now... :lol:
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

User avatar
Moogle Stiltzkin
Ask me anything
Posts: 9400
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 am
Location: Around the world....
Contact:

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed May 20, 2020 3:34 pm

P3R wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:15 pm
Now it sound like you're confusing static volume with single disk QTS. They're separate things. I thought your question was about having a static volumes.

You can have single HDD/SSD in both QTS and with ZFS. It's usually not recommended, but possible.

In QTS a static volume is an alternative to using storage pools, which is placed upon a RAID group or a single disk.

In QuTS you need a separate boot volume. I don't remember the exact requirements but I think that a RAID 1 of SSDs would be the best for that. It's probably optional but in addition to that you may want to use SSDs for caching. As that would include write caching, at least RAID 1 is strongly recommended or hopefully even a requirement.

I intend to have 2 pairs of SSDs for the above usage.
So next month...
And as we know that Qnap have never been late with any release, you'd better get ready now... :lol:
i was referring to this.
Image

this was the only option i got for setting up a single SSD/HDD in qts storage manager for a standalone ssd/hdd afaik :S
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) single disks.
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228
[^] QNAP TS-128
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

User avatar
qrusher
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:51 pm
Location: RUserious
Contact:

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by qrusher » Thu May 21, 2020 2:14 am

sad but no
you need reinit hdd for only zfs usage
no mix ext4 zfs pool storage possible
they use different kernel compilated cores

ithnk
crush qnaps like a thanos crushing planets
Updates are compromise between old bug patches and new bugs introduced. 8)
do you backup..then kill it with fire
stuff:mikrotik Crs309-1g-8s+in & s+rj10 x4

P3R
Guru
Posts: 12395
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:39 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden (UTC+01:00)

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by P3R » Thu May 21, 2020 2:58 am

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:34 pm
this was the only option i got for setting up a single SSD/HDD in qts storage manager for a standalone ssd/hdd afaik
Okay, as I don't use static volumes I wasn't aware that the underlying disk configuration was included in the description but it's logical as they're integrated.

I don't know as I have never had a reason to try it but can't you create a storage pool on a single disk?

Anyway, in ZFS a disk is a vdev so I don't see why it should be a problem to create a pool (volume) on it if you wanted to.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

User avatar
dolbyman
Guru
Posts: 20513
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:11 am
Location: Vancouver BC , Canada

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by dolbyman » Thu May 21, 2020 6:51 am

I wonder if this was a gaffe or a slip (from reddit)
Screenshot_2020-05-20 r qnap - QuTS Hero Jibber Jabber.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Moogle Stiltzkin
Ask me anything
Posts: 9400
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 am
Location: Around the world....
Contact:

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Thu May 21, 2020 9:18 am

is he refering to the recent pop up due to the latest 4.4.2 build? i looked at mine but i didn't spot any mention of qutshero :/

i'm not saying he is lying, i just did not see it for myself.

got these links bookmarked to check
this is the one it will most likely appear on first :'

Code: Select all

https://software.qnap.com
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) single disks.
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228
[^] QNAP TS-128
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

User avatar
dolbyman
Guru
Posts: 20513
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:11 am
Location: Vancouver BC , Canada

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by dolbyman » Thu May 21, 2020 9:41 am

was talking about qnapdaniels response on the bottom....current owners will not be able to upgrade qts to qtshero

*edit* .. now reddit shows more responses..qnapdaniel now clarified that upgrades for a fee will be done later

it sounded very final though in his first response

QNAPDanielFL
Easy as a breeze
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:09 am

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by QNAPDanielFL » Fri May 22, 2020 3:22 am

We now have some NAS that come with QuTS Hero included. Those don't charge extra for QuTS Hero because it is already included.

In the future you should be able to buy a license for most current NAS to switch your current NAS to QuTS Hero.

I do expect a charge for this but it should only be a 1-time fee.

User avatar
Trexx
Ask me anything
Posts: 5304
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:50 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: QTS Hero... ZFS? What? When?

Post by Trexx » Fri May 22, 2020 3:26 am

QNAPDanielFL wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:22 am
We now have some NAS that come with QuTS Hero included. Those don't charge extra for QuTS Hero because it is already included.

In the future you should be able to buy a license for most current NAS to switch your current NAS to QuTS Hero.

I do expect a charge for this but it should only be a 1-time fee.
Hi Daniel,

Will that license be transferable. Someone buys ZFS for their "backup" NAS, and finds that it isn't beefy enough to truly benefit from ZFS and wants to move that license to their primary NAS. Will that be possible (similar to some existing QNAP licenses where it is tied to active licenses used vs. specific HW device)?
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.3.x
QTS (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
Data (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar
VMs (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
Ext. (HDD): TR-004 [Raid-5] 4 x 4TB HGST Ultastor
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060 6GB
UPS: CP AVR1350

Model:TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.3.x Test/Backup Box
Model:TS-228a FW: 4.4.3.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq

Post Reply

Return to “Presales”