Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Discussion about hard drive spin down (standby) feature of NAS.
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ja666
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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by ja666 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:11 am

P3R wrote:WINS is known to keep the disks spinning
Because? Because of? Because of what? Because of what necessary unavoidable WINS activity caused by bad MS boy Mr.B.Gates & Co.? Is that WINS authors flaw? If so I'll write them a letter :lol:

the manufacturer of your NAS disagrees with you.
QNAP simply tries to be conservative I believe. I do have a lot cheaper WD MyNet Central HDD router which properly spins-down its 2,5'' HDD and switches-off device cooling fan when cooling is not necessary (in spite of router device activities).

As I said the NAS is still fully active and not in a standby mode. It's only the disks that are spun down, aka being in "disk standby mode".
You are wrong at this point to some extend: while TS-269L stands-by its HDDs, NAS is no longer visible by my Smart TV as a [network, DLNA] source. So this is not only its HDDs spinned-down.

On newer NAS models there's also a "sleep mode" in addition to the "disk standby mode". As I don't have any NAS supporting that mode I don't really know what it is but maybe the fan stops spinning there?
There is a sleep-mode in TS-269L Atom-based NAS.
AFAIK the only way to put TS-269L asleep is to use remote station (computer) and send a QFinder Pro sleep command.
I believe a lot of QNAP end users would welcome sleep mode from one of the device's front-buttons as well.

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by P3R » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:35 am

ja666 wrote:Because?
I'm not a programmer but for some reason they decided to put some data on disk, most likely it's the WINS database.

The good news is that WINS haven't been necessary to use for many years unless you run ancient equipment on your network.
QNAP simply tries to be conservative I believe.
A conservative manufacturer is in my opinion good news for the users because that means they have the margins that will make the equipment reliable.

But the reason for their decision doesn't really matter. Qnap designed your NAS that way and as far as I know, that's how they still design almost all of their the current models (I've shown you one of the exceptions).
I do have a lot cheaper WD MyNet Central HDD router which properly spins-down its 2,5'' HDD and switches-off device cooling fan when cooling is not necessary (in spite of router device activities).
I'm not familiar with that product but I bet it have a less powerful and cooler main board than your NAS.
You are wrong at this point to some extend: while TS-269L stands-by its HDDs, NAS is no longer visible by my Smart TV as a [network, DLNA] source. So this is not only its HDDs spinned-down.
I can't answer anything about the behaviour of your Smart TV.

I do however know that the NAS is still available on the network by the services/protocols it's configured to respond on, also during a disk standby. In fact that normal access through a network service is the way we as users make the disks spin up again. For that network access to be possible the system needs to be active. It's either that or magic... :wink:

I'm not trying to convince you to love what Qnap does here, I'm just telling you what they do to the best of my knowledge.

Please feel free to contact Qnap helpdesk if you want to confirm with a Qnap employee, make a feature request or suggest a new thermal design.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by ja666 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:33 am

Probably XMBC is ancient. Today I installed XBMC 12.3.0 x86 qpkg over 4.2.2 HD Station and XMBC asked me gently for WINS server address along with workgroup name of my network :lol:

-----
P3R wrote:The good news is that WINS haven't been necessary to use for many years unless you run ancient equipment on your network

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by P3R » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:02 pm

ja666 wrote:Probably XMBC is ancient. Today I installed XBMC 12.3.0 x86 qpkg over 4.2.2 HD Station and XMBC asked me gently for WINS server address along with workgroup name of my network :lol:
A software that's regularly updated with new releases will by definition never become ancient.

That a setting exist in a software is however no indication that it's required and much used technology. It will remain there to supply backwards compatibility for a very long time.

The relevant question would instead be if you're still running many pre 2000 computers with operating systems like Windows NT 4, Windows ME or even earlier versions in your network? If so WINS is probably still a requirement for your network and yes, such old and since long unsupported equipment is what I would call ancient in 2016/2017.

By the way, I'm by far no media player expert (I had to google XBMC) but XBMC 12.3 seems pretty old (more than 3 years now). Are you sure you want to use that? With release 14 in 2014 the name was changed to Kodi and the now current release appear to be version 16... :'
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by ja666 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:25 pm

P3R wrote:WINS is probably still a requirement for your network and yes, such old and since long unsupported equipment is what I would call ancient in 2016/2017
Tell that to manufacturers of modern office equipment (HP, Lexmark, Samsung, Ricoh, Oki) why they ask for WINS server addresses in their network printers and scanners :? What I noticed WINS minimizes 'dissapearing' of network componets ('... I do not see my device over the network...'), but I did not make PhD over DNS vs. WINS (stack sizes, refresh time, etc.).

By the way, I'm by far no media player expert but XBMC 12.3 seems pretty old. Are you sure you want to use that? With release 14 in 2014 the name was changed to Kodi and the now current release appear to be version 16.'
XMBS was included by QNAP with my very ancient TS-x69L in long-dated QTS model year 2015. If you know which Kodi v. works under HD Station 4.2.2 / 4.3 (Intel Atom x86_64) let us know pls.

Again:
Which WINS activity prevents 3GB RAM NAS hard disks from standby :?: :?:

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by P3R » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:14 pm

ja666 wrote:Tell that to manufacturers of modern office equipment (HP, Lexmark, Samsung, Ricoh, Oki) why they ask for WINS server addresses in their network printers and scanners...
As I already said, to be backwards compatible with very, very old clients. You could simply leave that field empty. That's what I do and it works perfectly here.
What I noticed WINS minimizes 'dissapearing' of network componets...
I can't know the requirements of your equipment but if you need WINS then run it.
Which WINS activity prevents 3GB RAM NAS hard disks from standby :?: :?:
I made a qualified guess earlier in the thread (the WINS database being placed on disk) but it doesn't really matter what exact software component it is that access the disk. Using a Qnap as a WINS server will keep the disks spinning. Period.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by schumaku » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:10 am

Leaving WINS alone...


QTS4.2

QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161214

[Bug fixes]

- Fixed an issue where using myQNAPcloud service would make x86-based and ARM-based models unable to enter disk standby mode.


...this could be the answer to some.

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by Jacobi » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:21 am

Hi all,

I installed the latest update, if the hard drives are supposed to spin down everything works properly now (everything is quit).
And also the crashes I had seems to be a thing of the past, so far I could not register an unexpected failure. I have to thank for the bugfix even if it took a long time.


Typ Datum Uhrzeit Benutzer Quellen-IP Computername Inhalt
Warnung 2016/12/19 06:19:18 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/12/18 17:26:11 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/12/18 10:53:10 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/12/15 07:50:32 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/12/15 07:43:26 System 127.0.0.1 localhost [Kernel] Out-Of-Memory. Kill process 13189(sh). To reclaim memory resources, try disabling some applications or consider expanding the system memory (if possible).
Warnung 2016/12/15 07:42:08 System 127.0.0.1 localhost [Kernel] Out-Of-Memory. Kill process 26952(mysqld). To reclaim memory resources, try disabling some applications or consider expanding the system memory (if possible).
Warnung 2016/11/20 11:43:03 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/11/17 22:09:25 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/11/17 00:39:37 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/11/16 07:27:57 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/11/15 10:43:21 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/11/14 19:01:45 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/11/06 17:05:21 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/10/29 06:30:02 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/10/29 02:09:25 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/10/18 18:36:18 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/10/17 06:25:04 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/10/11 04:07:48 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/10/09 15:47:38 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/10/09 04:13:08 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/10/07 18:54:40 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.
Warnung 2016/10/04 07:47:40 System 127.0.0.1 localhost The system was not shut down properly last time.

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by mfratini » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:19 am

schumaku wrote:
mfratini wrote:Every two seconds the HD are requested to write something.
I figured out that the following it is continuously (24/7) written on the /var/log/storage_lib.log. Copied pasted just a chunk of it....
Must be something else ... /var/log does reside on a RAM disk ... and the log file is rotated at around 1 MB.


Hello I am back in this thread since a lot of time...
Thank you for you reply "schumaku" (dated back in november) and sorry for my late answer... too many issues at home.

I just updated my NAS to the last firmware but the problem is still there.
Just checked and yes, the /var/log/storage_lib.log" is in a RAM disk. You are right.
Also I have also found that the hal_daemon and bcclient are causing that strings to be dumped in the log.
Killing those processes no further dumps but... disk access is still continuing.

Still trying to understand what process is causing this disk activity....

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by Tidus » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:13 pm

Hi,

I bought a TS251+ a little less than 2 years ago and I always have this problem. It never (or rarely) entered in sleep mode and disk are always busy I can hear it every time.
So this time I'm trying to disable everything except Web, FTP, SSH and Samba (minimal things for me or this device has no interrest at all) and I will see. If that doesn't change anything (and It seems that my NAS is always busy :( ), I will contact QNAP.
I just don't understand how this device can be always busy whereas there is nothing to do...
TS251+

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by rmmeli » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:45 am

Good luck contacting QNAP. I have had a case open with them for about 6 months with this issue and so far, nothing. Still open.

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by Toxic17 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:19 pm

And have you seen any comment on it from anyone? You can view your tickets, and you can reply to them asking for a response.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by rmmeli » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:33 pm

Yes, I have done all that. Each time I am told the issue is being investigated.

CylonCenturion

Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by CylonCenturion » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:04 am

rmmeli wrote:Yes, I have done all that. Each time I am told the issue is being investigated.


disable twonkey mediaserver

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Re: Hard Disks do not spin down - QTS 4.2.2 Build 20161102

Post by Tidus » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:42 am

rmmeli wrote:Good luck contacting QNAP. I have had a case open with them for about 6 months with this issue and so far, nothing. Still open.

If I cannot solve this problem, I will consider to buy an other NAS.

I'm currently doing tests. The only way to have spin down working is to disable all services except Web and SSH.
Since 2 days, I just reenabled Samba and spin down doesn't work anymore.
TS251+

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