Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Discussion about hard drive spin down (standby) feature of NAS.
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PeterMac83
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Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by PeterMac83 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:12 am

Hello,
I have a problem with regular wake ups of my hard drive WD Red 4TB in Qnap TS-231P.
First I want to tell you that I disabled everything in Control Panel what is on, every kind of service, even I disconnect server cable from router.
So there is no services that can cause a problem with wake ups, system time is also set to manual, I even set static IP in Qnap and router.
I read this also - https://wiki.qnap.com/wiki/Hard_drives_spindown_issues

As you can see all services are off
1.png

1.png


But no luck, still server is wake ups itself HDD every randomly ~1-2-3hours, my brand new hard drive which have 3 weeks already have in SMART value ~250 Start/Spin Counts,
every 24h this value increase abuot 10-12 times what I noticed.

How to stop this wake ups :( Please help, I also contacted with Qnap Helpdesk but they do not helped me until now :(
I also chcecked
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Last edited by PeterMac83 on Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by OneCD » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:20 am

If you’ve turned off all the QNAP services, I’ve got to ask: why do you have a NAS?

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PeterMac83
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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by PeterMac83 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:22 am

:shock: ? I disconnect cable to test and see does still wake ups, and now I'm sure that wake ups itself and not cause by some connected device to router.
I use it in home not very often, so I do not need to work 24/7 and use much more power, must stay all time in sleep mode until I use it for example by access via SMB.

Do you maybe know how to stop this wake ups ? I'm sure that this is cause by some system QTS service.

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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by OneCD » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:43 am

You keep editing your comments, which is making it hard to respond. I'm out.

Good luck running your NAS with no file sharing protocols. What a pointless endeavour. :S

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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by PeterMac83 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:49 am

I try to find what cause wake ups my HDD so I disabled for TESTING only all sharing protocols, Does it hard to understand :-0 ?

I read here almost everyone doing same things, disconect LAN cable, and disable everything what can do to find out what wakes drives, and you never was suprised :o as I read other similar theards.

So can You help me ?

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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by P3R » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:45 am

You've got a server that's running it's own OS and doing a lot of things in the background. If you don't like that, then power it down when you don't need it. That way you will save much more power than the less than 2 W a disk spin down will save you.

This is a classic thing that newbies spend a lot of time, effort and worries on but you're unlikely to ever find the cause. Frankly, I think Qnap should remove that option as the people trying to use it are usually disappointed. It made sense 10 years ago when a NAS was only a simple file server but today it have many, many more features and all of them may potentially spin the disks up.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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PeterMac83
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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by PeterMac83 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:09 am

I don't worry about NAS, I worry about hard drive like every other normal person, my new drive have only 3 weeks, and already have over 250 starts/spins, it's abnormal.
I'm user of this device, and if I don't use and need many of this services and disable all of them in Control Panel then NAS has no right to wakes up my drives itself by not necessary for me services.
If someone will need services like QSync, Qmail, Qget, etc than not have choice and server have right to wakes up HDD, but I use only SMB file access nothing more, so why I have to wear my brand new HDD by bad QTS system design because how can call that ? so many theards about that problem and still no simple solution I see.

So for what Qnap give this information "Find processes causing regular wake ups of hard drives"
https://wiki.qnap.com/wiki/Hard_drives_spindown_issues
If system services itself wake it ups regular ? lol

btw. I heard that Synology do not have problems with keeping sleep all time.

@OneCD - you have nothing to say more in this area ? you not helped me even in small percent.

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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by dolbyman » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:51 pm

if you disable sleep, no start/stop will happen ...nas drives are made for 24/7 operation...easy as that

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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by P3R » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:33 pm

Disks are designed to spin so they don't break from doing that. They also won't break from 10-12 or 20 spin ups a day but if you're worried about it, you shouldn't spin them down. If you don't, that number won't increase...

This is a user community, we don't care if you think the grass is greener on the Syno side.

Good luck!
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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PeterMac83
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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by PeterMac83 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:23 pm

I only hear that about Syno on Qnap forum in my country.

So there is no way to fix this random wake ups ?
I noticed that it wake ups in same hours a day, so must be some kind of system shedule, it wakes every day for example at 15:55, other wakes are also at 5 min to full hour.

Here is my cronotab, maybe here are some enters about this time ?
# m h dom m dow cmd
0-59/20 3 * * * /sbin/adjust_time
0 4 * * * /sbin/hwclock -s
0 3 * * * /sbin/vs_refresh
0 3 * * * /sbin/clean_reset_pwd
0-59/15 * * * * /etc/init.d/nss2_dusg.sh
30 7 * * * /sbin/clean_upload_file
0-59/10 * * * * /etc/init.d/storage_usage.sh
30 3 * * * /sbin/notice_log_tool -v -R
*/10 * * * * /sbin/config_cache_util 0
#0 2 * * * /sbin/qfstrim
38 * * * * /sbin/qddns_check 2>/dev/null
10 15 * * * /usr/bin/power_clean -c 2>/dev/null
0 3 * * 0 /etc/init.d/idmap.sh dump
49 9,21 * * * /sbin/notify_update -s -p 1>/dev/null 2>&1
24 20 * * * /mnt/ext/opt/QcloudSSLCertificate/bin/ssl_agent_cli
4 3 * * 3 /etc/init.d/backup_conf.sh


P3R - I know that disks are design to work, same like car engines for example but it's like a buy a car and engine will start/stop itself in garage if don't need without reason. This is not explanation.
I really don't get it why you try to tell here that everything is right and not try to find a solution ? Or maybe this is not fixable so please tell me that.

btw.
0-59/20 3 * * * /sbin/adjust_time
10 15 * * * /usr/bin/power_clean -c 2>/dev/null


for example this two entries, why they are still in crontab if I set adjust time Manually, and second one I disabled Network Recycle Bin checking at 15:10 ?

Question
If I will add for example SSD drive, and install on it system, and mechanical drive will keep only storage data for files, does still will be wake ups both drives ?
Edit:
I know what to do, probably I have to disable swap file on mechanical drive, but first I need SSD.
Your help here rocks :x

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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by P3R » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:16 pm

PeterMac83 wrote:I really don't get it why you try to tell here that everything is right and not try to find a solution ?
I'm telling you that you'll save yourself a lot of problems if you stop worrying about disks that won't break from the usage they were designed for.

I'm also telling you that if you really want to save power, then switch the NAS off. That's not what I do or recommend but some people insist on that as well. That at least is less headache.
Or maybe this is not fixable so please tell me that.
Well it may be fixable with a lot of effort and then when something change you're back at square one again...
...for example this two entries, why they are still in crontab if I set adjust time Manually, and second one I disabled Network Recycle Bin checking at 15:10 ?
Ask Qnap, they're the ones having the disk spin down option in the settings.
If I will add for example SSD drive, and install on it system, and mechanical drive will keep only storage data for files, does still will be wake ups both drives ?
Yes.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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PeterMac83
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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by PeterMac83 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:08 pm

P3R - thank you for answer.

I found some tutorial on forum from user in my country which disable swap file on mechanical drive and keep it only on SSD, and after that mechanical disc will sleep all time as this user told, never wake again itself.
Also he disable synchronization mechanical disks from RAID1 configuration, this probably cause that all drives wakes, even when OS is only on SSD, Qnap make backup on all drives (It's secure but for me useless)
I already purchase a very cheap SSD 120GB drive but still nice on MLC nand, and will try to do this, I will not give up :) and set it to work like I want and need not Qnap developers which they do wrong for home use.
Qnap for his all NAS models use configuration more for Enterprise use, not for Home use which is total stupid specially for models like TS-231P which is more for home use.
Last edited by PeterMac83 on Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by P3R » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:06 am

Remember that when you start modyfying like that anything may break with future updates and you can't expect support from Qnap.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

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PeterMac83
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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by PeterMac83 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:21 am

Yes right I know, but I do not need future updates until this will be fix/change by Qnap by default in firmware.
As I read this modifiactions only work until restart, after that everything back to normal, but It can be added permanently to autorun.sh.
Currently I'm waiting for Helpdesk reply, and see what developers answer, but probably they do not give me any good a solution, what they can suggest is to run blkdevMonitor :lol: which is useless if built in system procesess/swap wakes itself HDD, total nonsense.

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Re: Regular wake ups of hard drives in TS-231P

Post by ds256 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:46 am

I'm dealing with this issue on my TS-453 where all 4 of my disks wake up anytime I wake up a computer on my LAN from sleep. Even if that computer is not utilizing any of the NAS's services. It's really a bad design and I don't understand why it is happening. There doesn't seem to be any log of what is necessary that the disks are spinning up. I only use the NAS a few times a week and don't need the disks to always be on or spin up when I am not accessing the NAS shares.

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